@Blackmist@feddit.uk
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“Oh man, I’d love to use Linux because then I wouldn’t have to have Edge installed!” - Nobody. Ever.

People use Windows because it comes with the PC and it runs all their shit (maybe except some yellowing-beige and blue scanner from 1997) with no fucking about needed. They were never incentivised to use Linux. They don’t know what an OS is, and more importantly, they don’t care.

Also most software is written for that default os and if they ran into most of the common issues linux users do theyd throw it in the bin.

And still, it’s been years (even decades) that all computers in France were supposed to be proposed without OS preinstalled and yet it’s very difficult to find one, or even to be refunded the licence Price a posteriori. Laws are being voted, removed, revoted, reremoved etc. and all justice actions have been a massive failure for consumers. I hope this law will be more applied than what we had until now.

We are moving the correct way but we still are so far from equity.

sebinspace
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Who gives a shit what other people use?

Too many Linux users do, unfortinuately.

wuphysics87
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Windows is made by a company that would make this change in some countries but not all countries. We are not free until we are all free. Some operating systems guarantee that. Others do not.

I don’t disagree with you but dude people are sick of the politicization of everything and their operating system doesn’t even get onto that radar. They are ignorant and quite happy of it. Please let the pigs eat their shit in peace.

That said, it is quite telling that Microsoft apparently finds it more advantageous to have two divergent feature sets than to apply the change universally.

wuphysics87
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I get where you are coming from. FWIW I’m being a jackass for the hell of it rather than trying to start a flame war. But if someone is to get upset about it, perhaps its something for them to reflect on later.

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@vsh@lemm.ee
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removed by mod

Install Linux anyway

Why would you pay for an incompetent sabotaging system?

I installed both windows and Linux about a week ago. Linux was (with download and USB creation) a little over 30 minutes. Windows was an agonizing 7 hour journey through all sorts of dumb vague error messages, internet searches disconnecting and reconnecting drives, various rewrites the that USB drive, having to spin up a VPS in Linux and install windows there first… It was a fucking nightmarish hellscsape caused by a mix of windows developers (and their managers) incompetence and pure sabotage of people that use real operating systems.

Fuck everything about Microsoft, install Linux and stick with that. We have cookies

danque
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Download windows media tool. Start installation. Done in ~30 min. After install, downloads all necessary basic drivers automatically. Just have to download Nvidia GeForce. < I have installed my own PC yes, multiple times yes.

Enjoy your Linux, please don’t lie to prove unexisting superiority.

smoothbrain coldtakes
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So, I came here with a bit of knowledge in Linux having fucked around with Ubuntu and Arch here and there, and I can tell you, even with a sturdy and non-rolling release like Fedora Silverblue, there are easily things I can do in Windows that just work without any additional overhead or configuration that simply does not work in Linux, like fingerprint sensors.

You guys all say Windows sucks and Linux is the greatest thing since sliced bread but it still can’t do the fucking basics that Windows does in spades. When I install Windows on a machine, I have nearly a 100% guarantee that every single component is going to work properly with minimal config. When I try to do the same thing in Linux, it’s hours on the Arch wiki or deep into forums trying to figure out how to get something as basic as a fingerprint sensor to work. That’s not convenient for the average user, and you guys are not the goddamn average user, because you are okay with shit not working out of the box and doing configurations for a lot of little things that you would otherwise just take entirely for granted as simply working on Windows.

does not work in Linux, like fingerprint sensors.

my xps13 fingerprint sensor works perfectly out of the box…

also why bring up arch? that distro is literally made for thinkerers. you need to compare windows to ubuntu or fedora…

@mellejwz@lemmy.world
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How did you manage to do that? Installing Windows 11 only took me about 30 minutes last time. Installing Debian takes about the same time. And what does a VPS even have to do with all of this?

For me the 30 minutes to install is about right. After that I have usable Linux and an unusable Windows.

To get Windows to the same state:

  • Add 5 Minutes for clicking trough the "Do you want to enable handwriting? ((( We just allow ourselves to collect samples of everything you write to “improve our recognition engine” )))
  • Add 20-30 minutes of security updates (thankfully it got much faster with SSDs, before it could have been hours)
  • Add 20-30 minutes of installing necessary software like an office suite, PDF Reader with basic functionality, 7zip. This is only 30 minutes because I spent hours automating the downloads and installs trough scripts.
  • If it is my system or a company system: Add 20 minutes to go trough the settings of Win10Privacy to at least reduce the phoning home and to enable some necessary settings for working with the system like “Don’t restart at random times”
  • Add 10 Minutes to remove the installed bloatware like People, Windows Maps, Windows Experience Host, …

In summary:
Linux requires 5 minutes attention and is ready after 30min.
Windows requires 40 minutes of attention and is somewhat ready after 2h30min. Even if I skip the privacy stuff its still at about 1h20min.

To be fair: On Windows and Linux I immediately install ublock to Firefox afterwards, on Linux I run a single apt command to install some more niche software which takes about 3 minutes on a fast network connection.

danque
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I’m sorry but you are just cherry picking. I’m not going into detail, but it sounds more like you have no knowledge on windows then you do. There are many ways to shorten installs for programs, those are not windows system and can be removed from your time, same for win10privacy, same for the ‘bloatware’. In all that leaves 30 min install and 30 mins of security 'in the background’ still 30min.

I am very happy if you can enlighten me. Granted, I do not install Windows very often (otherwise I would bake all these things into an image), and there may be improvements. So feel free to make your point and save me time.

An no, security updates can’t run in the background. If I sit a user in front of a PC, the PC has to be secure. Which means that the zero day exploits from a few days ago which are already exploited in the wild have to be fixed. Also yes, software for basic tasks and configuration till usability is reached is part of an operating system install. Otherwise you have to compare the time to install a barebones Linux (1 Minute) with a bare Windows install (still 30 minutes).

I currently use chocolatey for automation of software installs. But Libreoffice alone takes minutes to install on Windows even on fast PCs. If you know a better/faster tool I am happy to listen.

@jimbo@lemmy.world
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Why do people make up dumb stories like this? It’s okay to just like something without spreading nonsense about the competing products.

There are plenty of things to hate Windows for.

But a 7 hour fresh install is not one of them. That just reeks of incompetence.

danque
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Exactly. Hate windows how you want, but don’t lie to prove a point.

NGL I gotta say that sounds like a fluke. I’ve never had to spend more than an hour on a fresh windows install. I run Windows on my desktop and Linux Mint on my laptop. So while I haven’t done thousands of installs if 7 hours was a constant issue no one would be using Windows.

It’s 7 hours when you factor in the updates and the time spent having to go fish for software all over the Internet.

danque
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Fish for software… honestly it’s harder to find your shit working for Linux than windows. But to each their own department.

I can count the times that I’ve needed windows for something other than a game (no longer an issue) in the past 25+ years on one hand.

Maybe use an installer that was downloaded more recently than 2015?

What kind og software did you need to find? Last time i did a fresh install of win10 (a couple of weeks ago), I downloaded Rufus to make the bootable USB and that was the only thing I needed to go “fish for all over the internet”… 30min later I was up and running, updates scheduled to run during the night when I didn’t need to use the computer.

I get the point, but there’s for example Evolution which you cannot uninstall from GNOME without uninstalling the GNOME itself

Pantsofmagic
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Well at least it doesn’t fire off background processes even if you don’t use it.

@ikidd@lemmy.world
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Well, you could if the package was set up differently, or if you wanted to go at it manually. But they way the maintainers set the dependencies makes apt think it has to remove the whole DE, or at least a bunch of essential parts of it.

Can’t you pass something like --unmerge or --nodeps so package manager will ignore dependencies? And then add it to apt equivalent of package.prpvided to tell that this package is managed by another package manager(you).

That’s the point. Obviously you can uninstall any windows application too, it’s just that Microsoft doesn’t want you to.

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Is this some AI generated answer? I refuse to think a person can talk like that.

The “obviously” comes from the article which states that Microsoft allows uninstallilng software which obviously means they always could do that. They just didn’t want to allow users to do it.

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The overlap of people that will not remove the initial bloat (even if it’s a button displayed prominently on first start) and people inclined to use Linux in the first place is not that great.

There’s an app called “whatever”? Is it the new WhatsApp? Or an app about being indifferent?

If you are too stupid for your own good it’s not our problem.

Idk, the whole “Megacorp is forced to do reasonable thing, but will still only do so in regions where the law applies” should further encourage people to move away from all their crap.

MeanEYE
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Are we still forgetting that Win12 will have subscription? Or at least it might. Then their terms of agreement state clearly that they will collect your personal data and share them if they see the need for it. I mean there’s more to it than being able to uninstall IE.

Windows 12 is not going to require a subscription

MeanEYE
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I too doubt this will be the case but there was a news report claiming Microsoft is contemplating such a thing.

Kumatomic
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Don’t worry, there’s still plenty of reasons Windows sucks and they’ll only make it worse.

Synapse
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Lets be honest, people don’t switch to Linux because it’s better, we switch because of the cute pinguin mascot !

Andrew
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And because it’s free in many ways.

Or Chameleon if in EU.

It’s OpenSUSE.

Or Larry the Cow.

Don’t forget the cute blue upercase A.

@hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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Femboy A :3

Never heard of anything like that. The chameleon it is.

I disagree with the premise, but even if it’s true that people stay with Windows because it sucks less, that’s still a success story for Linux. External comparative pressure leading to more end user freedom. Think of where it could go next!

The year of Linux cancelled. /s

@puppy@lemmy.world
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The year of the DESKTOP Linux. Linux has already won everywhere else.

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I use Arch btw


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